Nudibranches

[Learner]

Hi all,

A question : How long will it take a nudibranch to eat an aiptasia?
I ask, as I bought one (thought it was two, but guy couldn't supply). popped it into the tank -pre rockslide-
and haven't seen it since! It was very tiny however,  ::)
Today I noticed a tube where I thought an appi had been, it has little spots on it, and the appi above it looks quite raggedy  ??? as though it has been 'got at', but it too has little white spot-like things on it !!!
Any ideas? all notions appreciated.
Thanks,
Tania.

[RandyFolds]

I am a little confused as to the second thing with white spots on it... Nudibranchs are pretty impossible to crush or trap, as their shells are small, flexible, and totally encompassed within the body, so I wouldn't worry much about that. I just found two sea cucumbers in a clients tank that I never put in there and they didn't know about, and I had been caring for that tank for two years when we found them. Squishy stuff can usually make it out.

Nudibranchs are notoriously short-lived, and are usually very VERY particular about their prey items (one species, one prey item), so they are almost always a bad idea to stock since they are doomed when they clear your tank out. Pretty much all nudibranchs bioaccumulate toxic compounds to deter predation, and I have heard these can unleash hell in your tank when they die and foul as well. I have never had the beans to stock them in my tanks, though I will pick up a Navanax sp. soon since I have red planaria blooming in my 30g.

I am not sure what species you have, but I can only imagine that when it runs out of appies it is coming for your coral. Keep your eyes peeled.

[Learner]

 :o OMG!!!

The Species is Berghia Nudibranch.

Any idea as to how big it will grow?

 I have about 15 or so aiptasia in the tank at the moment, so thought they'd keep the nudi busy for a while, he would grow, and when all aiptasia had gone, he would be large enough to catch and remove!!
In a perfect world eh?

The white spots are on the  aiptasia;  could they be eggs?/ Young? No idea, as only one went into the tank, but I read that they 'enjoy breeding', so could have maybe laid eggs (do they?) after arrival?

Should have researched it a bit more before putting it in  :-[; could it harm my fish as well as attempt to eat my coral?

Thanks for advice
Tania.

[Bergy]

a lot of folks use bergia for aptasia removal, but they will starve when thie rfood is gone...

I would not be too concerned with them releasing toxins as it would be a small amount, and if you have any crabs and shrimp they will eat some/most of the decompsing stuff anyways, assuming you dont catch it first...

you can try to trade it with someone who needs it for thier tank after also..

try craigslist or your local reef club...

but no worries...

[Learner]

Thanks for that Bergy, feel a lot better now, imagining all sorts!!! ???
Apocalypse Nudi', etc... ;D

I'll try to get a decent shot of the 'white spots' on the aiptasia, perhaps someone could ID them for me then?

Thanks again,

Tania.

[RandyFolds]

Aiptasia don't really "lay eggs", they planulate, which means they spit out a medusa stage, which is essentially a little jellyfish. In fact, they (and coral) are very close relatives to jellyfish, except aiptasia and coral settle on a substrate and grow, whereas jellyfish never move beyond the medusa stage and just grow larger in the water column.

They can also undergo transverse and longitudinal fission. Transverse fission involves the top of the anemone coming off and settling somewhere to make two individuals. Longitudinal fission involves splitting like a pizza into two or more pieces.

They also undergo pedal laceration, which consists of inching along leaving a trail of little pieces, all of which become bastardly little anemones.

No wonder they are so hard to control...

The "eggs" could mean it is a Bartholomea sp. anemone, which are just as bad as aiptasia, but have little white bands on the tentacles. I think they are called curley-cue anemones.

Didn't mean to scare you with the poison stuff...a tiny one won't be an issue. If you go stocking a three inch Aplysia sp., you will run into trouble.

[psykokid]

Lanny, the nudi's she's referring to are Aeolidiella stephanieae If i had space id order 3 or 4 and set up a breeding station. iirc they dont need much of anything other that aippies to eat. People jump on group buys of them like they are going out of style. They sell for 11 or 12 ea for 1/4" juvies, more for 1/2" full fledged breeding adults.. Hrmm food for thought..

[Learner]

Aiptasia don't really "lay eggs", they planulate, which means they spit out a medusa stage, which is essentially a little jellyfish. In fact, they (and coral) are very close relatives to jellyfish, except aiptasia and coral settle on a substrate and grow, whereas jellyfish never move beyond the medusa stage and just grow larger in the water column.

They can also undergo transverse and longitudinal fission. Transverse fission involves the top of the anemone coming off and settling somewhere to make two individuals. Longitudinal fission involves splitting like a pizza into two or more pieces.

They also undergo pedal laceration, which consists of inching along leaving a trail of little pieces, all of which become bastardly little anemones.

No wonder they are so hard to control...

The "eggs" could mean it is a Bartholomea sp. anemone, which are just as bad as aiptasia, but have little white bands on the tentacles. I think they are called curley-cue anemones.

Didn't mean to scare you with the poison stuff...a tiny one won't be an issue. If you go stocking a three inch Aplysia sp., you will run into trouble.

Thanks for the information, it's fascinating to know all that, you are a mine of information; so:
Will the nudibranch eat the curly - cue?, or am I in a no-win situation..... :-\
Tania.

[Bergy]

he better be a wealth of information,  degrees in marine biology aint cheap?!?!?!

[RandyFolds]

Goodness...it sounds like we need to start a breeding program. I need to do some research.

It'll probably eat the curley-cues no problem, if that is even what they are...they are pretty similar to aiptasia. I didn't think of it before, but it is totally possible that you are seeing the planulae brooding within the anemone.

[Learner]

It'll probably eat the curley-cues no problem, if that is even what they are...they are pretty similar to aiptasia. I didn't think of it before, but it is totally possible that you are seeing the planulae brooding within the anemone.

I've noticed that only one of the 'appies' has the white on it, but now also has a 'cluster' of white at its centre(?), I wish I could get a shot of it, but it's in such an awkward position!!
I'm watching it to see if the white bits change or move, or even if the appie appears to reduce or die -which would be great-  will keep a closer eye on it.
Thanks.

[RandyFolds]

Good lord...they are charging $25 for these MFs? I am going to breed the hell out of them. Now to figure out where to get my hands on a ton of aiptasia...

[Learner]

If I could send you mine, I would.. ::)..be careful what you wish for  ;D

BTW, one nudibranch in the UK costs  £25 sterling inc' carriage.  :o

[psykokid]

Good lord...they are charging $25 for these MFs? I am going to breed the hell out of them. Now to figure out where to get my hands on a ton of aiptasia...

just get one of those big white bins and some ugly rock and throw it in there..I've got a rock with some aippies you can use as brood stock. Just do what you aren't supposed to do when it comes to aippies, make them planulate, chop'em in half, etc... Im sure you can turn that bin into an aippie farm in no time. I've read you have to have a good continuous supply for these nudis to survive.

[Just_Greg]

the absolute best appy-snackers i've EVER had are the pair of bristletail filefish i'm currently keeping in my waspfish tank.  since peps are out of the question (pep = food), i decided to give the filefish a shot, and i can happily report that there is not ONE appy left in the system.  the nice thing about this species is they stay on the small side, and can be used in smaller systems (25 gals and up).

that being said, i dunno how reef safe they are, but i do have some green palythoa in the tank that seem fine.  the filefish do nip on the macro in the tank, however.