Water Chemistry

[Bergy]

yes, there is a relationship between the THREE components,   Calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium

An ALK test will expose this... although i dont think it is this problem..

I would also suggest getting someone else to test to compare your results...

[mardaman]

Hello again to all the very helpful and knowlegeable members of the reefing community,  I have been gone for a couple days and logged back on to find more valuable input, so let me respond to those that are trying to help me get a beautiful and healthy marine tank.
 
Hello RandyFolds:
   Yes I just checked the date on my water test kit and it expired (12/09).  It is Red Sea brand Marine Lab,
   and it looks like I will be buying a new kit.  It is made for saltwater
 
   I did a 5 gallon water change and used Amquel.  I am retesting this weekend so I will post those results. 
   Also will take a sample for testing to the LFS and find out those results and compare to mine, then will
   also post those as well.
 
   My light sources are: BioCube 36W 10K Daylight and Bio Cube 36W Actinic 03 Blue
 
   Can you elaborate on "ahematypic corals", I would like to get what looks the coolest but not too hard to
   care for, but gradually as I become more experienced move into other invertebrates.  Can you suggest
   what I should get as far as corals, Zoas and mushrooms
 
 
Hi Bergy:
   I am checking those other sites you recommended..............yes please no drama.
   How do I raise the alkalinity............can I add a commercial buffer powder and monitor my chemistry or
   will that screw up my pH too much (I believe pH and Alkalinity are inversely related).
 
   As for the salt water I am using Instant Ocean and mixing it 1/2 cup, per gallon of water as the box
   instructs.  I am using purified water that I am getting from one of the commercial dispenser found in front
   of grocery stores, CVS, etc
 
 
Hey pinkorchid:
   Thanks for the encouragement and wishing me luck thoughts:)
 
 
Hey Just_Greg:
   I have the books that you recommended as well as a couple that look like they may be good sources 
   from Amazon.  Can never have too many reference materials, also they all    seem to be consistant in
   their information.
 
  Since the test kit I bought does not have a Mg part I did not even considered it.
 
  Please explain the question, re: dosing anything......I do not know if I am or am not
 

All you guys and gals are the MOST AWSOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[psykokid]

I have a 46 gallon bowfront thats been up and running since 02.. Lots of live rock and a couple inches of sand. I checked my water params tonite and everything was good except for nitrates. My nitrates have been high lately because i have been over feeding to try and keep a goniporra alive to no avail. My levels are as follows:

SG: 1.024
ALK: 10 dkh
CA: 440
MG: 1350
Ph:8.0
NO3: 50 mg/l
NO2: didnt test
NH3/4: didnt test
PO4: didnt test


the rest i dont really bother testing honestly unless im trying to diagnose a problem. I'm with bill as i check my alk more often than anything else and if thats out of line then i test everything else. A couple of more 15 gal water changes and my nitrate levels will be back in the happy single digit to low teen zone..

[Just_Greg]

Since the test kit I bought does not have a Mg part I did not even considered it.
 
  Please explain the question, re: dosing anything......I do not know if I am or am not

the reason i brought up the Mg test is that Carole's Ca is pretty low, and most folks leave that out of the equation when troubleshooting their Ca/alk trouble.  normally, i wouldn't test for Mg unless there's a problem.

"dosing" in the hobby means adding trace elements or compounds such as Mg, Sr, Fe, vodka, etc. to a system, usually to correct a problem or insufficiency.  for instance, LPS, SPS, and clams tend to suck Ca from the water to build skeleton/shell as they grow, and sometimes, it's necessary to "dose" supplemental Ca.  usually, your WC's will cover the loss of these elements, but not always.

[Bergy]

dont toss the test kit until you prove it is not reliable... when you compare your results to the lfs, then you will know, but please dont waste money...

as for dosing... if you have walked down the isle at the lfs you will have seen every chemical under the sun... on one aspect, it seems nice that there is a 'science' to the hobby, and that you think that if you follow, A, then B, you will have C, but in reality, too many folks buy these things cause lfs tell folks fish and coral need things like Calcium and Strontyum, and others... the reality is that those elements are already in the SALT water...

If your critters need certain elements, your tank will slowly be depleted, (ASSUMING YOU DONT ADD MORE NEW SALT WATER, that has those elements in it)

the math is simple... if you have critters that use MORE then what you replace, you will have to add.. BUT the only way to be sure is to TEST and measure what your system is using, and chances are that if you dont have a tank/system that has TONS of element needing critters, then you probably dont need to add more then what is already in the NEW salt water...

So, to be clear, dont add stuff until you know your system is low on that particular elemnt...

[cruzincaril]

well i dont have lps or sps so where is the calcium going? ive brought up the alk and all other params are zero so??? i think bill said i dont really need a hi calc with softs

[Just_Greg]

well i dont have lps or sps so where is the calcium going? ive brought up the alk and all other params are zero so??? i think bill said i dont really need a hi calc with softs

this goes back to the whole Ca-ALK-Mg relationship again.  this relationship is the first place to look if your Ca is out of whack and you know nothing is using it.  check your ALK, as you likely have the reagents for the test.

[cruzincaril]

yes it was low and i brought it back up but the calc didnt change..then i started the mag dosing  and like bill says theres no reason for a lot of calcium in there

[Bergy]

like i asked before, please test the new salt water, prior to adding it to your tank... i want to know what the calcium is out of the bucket/box, or whatever / whereever it comes from


if your new salt water has low calcium that would explain why your tank has low calcium...

your choices are to either increase the salinity to raise the calcium, change to a different salt mix, or to dose...

and like i said, you really dont need calcium with fo  or softies....  calcium is for skeleton growth, so if no skeleton, then no growth needed...


magnesium is a component that helps the breakdown/balance of the calcium to alkalinity... so if one is off, then you need to test magnesium, and if that is low, you need to dose to bring it up, if the goal/need is there...

[Just_Greg]

true enuff, Billy-Bob.

one thing i can add is that since we pre-buffer our RO/DI, we get super crazy coralline growth, and the snails really pack on the shell and grow as well, so there are indeed advantages to keeping the Ca levels up.  that being said, we started buffering because we wanted to maintain a stable pH and alk.  some of our systems go thru so much top-up water that unbuffered water was causing issues.

as you said, however, it's really a matter of what you're trying to acomplish.

[Bergy]

yes, correct again.. i usually say something similar to/ akin to fo or softies, or other calcium needing critters...

if you ahve anything that needs calcium, and you either have a bunch of them, or they use a ton of calcium, then you are prolly ok with just routine water changes, depending on the calcium levels of the salt mix you choose to use...

if you dont have any or much in the way of DEMAND, then you are prolly supplying sufficient amounts in the routine water change...

[psykokid]

what are you using to pre-buffer your RO-DI greg? My PH has always been a lil on the low side, highest i've ever managed to get it up to even pulling fresh air from outside for the skimmer was 8. I wonder if i manage to get my PH up if i'll get better growth out of things..

[Just_Greg]

Seachem Reef Buffer.  we add a small amount (the largest of those "pinch", "dash" measuring spoons) per 5 gals of RO/DI.  i need to get you a "real" amount in tsp.  we aerate the water for a day prior to use.

[psykokid]

for my last waterchange pre-buffered the water before mixing in the salt. After adding the salt I let it circulate with an airstone in a 20 gallon brute for a couple of days. Did my waterchange early this morning and here were my results from testing params this afternoon:

SG: 1.023
ALK: 10dKh
CA: 440
MG: 1260
Nitrate: 25
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia:0
Phosphate: 0
PH: 8.0

I Tested the ph before the lights had come on, so hopefully in the middle of the light cycle my ph will be a little bit higher. Most of the times when i test mid way through my light cycle my ph is usually 7.9-8.0 so we'll see how things go. Going to bring the mag up a little more as im getting some stringy goopy looking algae growth so hopefully with the lower nitrates and the higher mag it will beat it back a little bit. Im going to put some more cheato or some other macro in to hopefully leech out some more nitrates. Maybe i'll try some halimeda in the display again, although my tang likes to munch it alot we'll see how it fares this time. Getting some cyano in a few spots too, probably due to low flow in those spots.

[Bergy]

jake,

Hows about putting your chemistry / water perameters in your section so we can track your stuff


Also, I would like to see (from you and anyone/everyone else) the following


Test your tank water prior to the water change...

Test your new salt water....

do the water change, then test the diplay tank about an hour later...


so, basically three test results...

Would like to put together a graph or chart or something to see what difference the water change makes...