Which Testing Kit should I get?

[Just_Greg]

i can't see 'trates killing a fish like that.  what is "high"?  one of the reasons folks on aquarium sites ask for specific numbers is because there is often a discrepancy in what peeps call "normal" and "high".  also, there are relationships between certain parameters, so numbers are really a must.

you mentioned cleaning the filter, which may have resulted in a NH3 spike.  IIRC, your tank is pretty light on LR, so most of your biofiltration is coming from your filter media.

how much, how often, and what do you feed the tank?

[naturalbornrokstar]

Hey Guys,
I had tested the levels before the first water change N02 was .5 and NO3 was 20. After the first 20% water change the No2 was .5 and the N03 was 20. On my sea cucumber there is white stuff on him and some brown weird looking stuff. I'm gonna try and take pics of it. I read online that you can do another water change of 40% so I am in the midst of that currently.
Taking it slow so hopefully there is no temperature spike. Everything was going so good and then all of a sudden all this crap! I know it's the Nitrate doing it all the other levels are the same as before. here are those
alk 1.7-2.8
ph 8.2
nh3 ammonia .25

Any and ALL suggestions are encouraged please!! I am hoping I am doing the right thing
Oh and btw.. Having problems with the uploading of avatar pics. I browse to the file and then hit upload and nothing is happening.

[Bergy]

i will look at the avatar thing later, but you shouldnt be having ammonia... if you have ammonia, then your biological filter isnt there or isnt sufficient for the amount of fish you have, which is minimual...

would like to hear your tank stats again... as i ahve zero memory.... but what size tank, how much sand, rock, fish and critters, and what type of filtration....

If i recall, you have a cannister filter, so, if you did 'clean' it, then greg might be correct in that your filter contains most of the 'BO', (biological filtration/living organisms)

It is normal for 'filter media' to contain BO, as BO is everywhere... it's on the glass/acrylic, on the plumbing, on the thermometer, etcx.


the difference being that live rock and sand has way more surface area then all those other components comb ined... so, if your filter has the majority of BO, then  you disturb it every time you clean it, you can be kicking up stuff and cuasing havoc each time you 'clean'...

Normall it wouldnt be a problem if you have way more rock, but if you have minimal rocks then it can and will be something to deal with...

but, you can do as many water changes aas you want... just make the water match as closely as y0our display tank, and you should be fine...

[naturalbornrokstar]

It is a 30x20x12 tank. Currently I have three clowns, 2 shrimp, hermits, snails, and a star fish. About 20 lbs of live rock and the bag of live sand substrate are what's currently in the tank. I have a 4 cycle filter that runs about 175 gallons and hour Fission Protein Skimmer and immersible shatterproof heater. First to go was the banghai cardinal. Tested and the nitrate was high N02 was .5 and NO3 was 20. After the first 20% water change there was no change in the levels. Then one of the clowns went. Yesterday I did a 40% water change. No2 went to .25 and no3 to 10 I do believe I wrote it down but not in front of me now. Sea cucumber eventually fell from the glass to the bottom and died too :(
It doesn't seem like it is really making much of a difference to me. I read online that you could use Mangrove Plant to reduce nitrate levels. What do you suggest?
I need to get this fixed! I am freaking out!
When I did the water changes I just got distilled water and added 1/2 c of the instant ocean mix to each gallon. salinity is still good at 1.026 right now. There has to be a more efficient way to do the water changes. I read briefly about reverse osmosis water would that be the best way to go?
Everything else so far is still living but I'm afraid that everything is going to go if I can't get this licked. I also noticed that I have purple algae growing on one of the rocks now. I read that that is probably because of the nitrate levels.
I need to know what else to do!
Will be looking frequently to see if anyone posts anything.
Thanks
Amanda

[Bergy]

amanda, (I like rokstar)  hehehehe

nitrates arent fish killers... nitrates or more of an issue for coral keepers... typically, i dont care much about nitrates for FO tanks, and suggest less water changes and all that stuff...

not sure what a 4 cyce filter is, but if it is a cannister filter, can you tell me what is inside it and how often you do maintenance on those parts???  i.e. filter pads, bio beads / balls, etc...

also when you mix your salt water, how do you mix it, and when do you mix it... it is suggested to mix it up the day/nite before, and to use a small power head to circulate the water to help dissolve and keep it dissolved during this process...

Yes, ro/di   (that is all together  ro/di)  it stands for REVERSE OSMOSIS w/ Di-ionized Resin  is a better way to go...

but typically bottled water is ok, but expensive..

distilled water is not usually recomended as it is stripped of EVERYTHING except water...   no nutriional value and no trace elements.. which is kinda ok as there are BAD trace elements but there are good ones ...

I would start yusing regualr bottled water, or find a water machine in front of the store.. theya re usually ok

if you want, you or rather you should get a TDS meter to check that water... to make sure it is LESS then your tap water...

the issue with ro/di water is not fish killer issues either, as typically unfiltered water is responsible for algae and clorine issues...

your issue seems to come from something causeing or not dealing with ammonia...  I would get some de-ammonia product, and add that to your tank, i would also do more and larger water changes until you get zero ammonia...

but the cause of the ammonia is an immature or not developed biological filtration system...

although the ammonia is not really high, it is there, and it causing stress on the critters, that is ireversible...
btw, good job on catching the cucmber out of ther quickly..

[Just_Greg]

Bill's right...you should have zero NH3 and NO2...ZERO.  NH3 is the worst, as it burns a fish's gills, thus reducing their ability to breathe.  this is even worse for fish with closed opercula, as less water flushes past the gills, so contaminants affect them more.

BTW, a methylene blue bath helps to relieve the condition for affected fish.

inverts are super intolerant of NH3/NO2.

something is amiss here...either your tank is not properly cycled, or something is killing off what little biofiltration you have.

at this stage, it wouldn't hurt to get a bottle of Super-Bac and add it to the tank (yes, it smells bad, but IME, the stuff is the best bottled bacteria out there).

Bill,

i think a "4 cycle filter" = "4-stage filter"

[Learner]

Amanda,
How do you 'clean' your filter? do you use the water you are taking from the tank? or do you use water from a different source?
Do you still have the sunken city ornament?
Lots of questions I know, not an expert, but hate to think of your poor tank mates suffering.
Good luck,
Tania.

[Bergy]

yea, sorry for the questions, but I deal with about 20-30 questions per week, and I rarely remembre peoples tanks/systems.. even my friends that live local that i have been to thier houses???

That plus they may make changes from time to time and not tell me or others


so, i truly appreciate it when you and others recap thier systems for questions like yours..

IT really does help

and yes, greg is correct whenhe said i was correct.. heheheh

[Just_Greg]

Tania brought up a good point...whenever you clean something that you'd like to preserve life on, use the old water from your WC's.  this is especially important for things like filter sponges or other re-usable media.

[naturalbornrokstar]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the info. When I clean the Filter I usually just rinse everything real good with tap water. The Filter is a power filter that takes a c cartridge and can pump 175 gallons an hour. The skimmer is a Fission nano skimmer for tanks up to 30 gallons. That Tank is 30x20x12
I no longer have the sunken City I replaced that with 10 lbs of live rock in addition to the other ten lbs that I already had. At that time I also added a starfish, 2 black clowns, bangahi cardinal, and sea cucumber, and  a black background. Since I added that stuff on Last Thursday... First to go was the cardinal, then of the clowns and then the cucumber.
Saturday was the first death. Sunday I did the first 20% water change. Readings-ALK 1.7-2.8....NO2 .5....NO3 20....ammonia .25.... ph 8.2
After that I did a 40% change. Then lost the Black clown. Readings  today are ph 8.0....Ammonia .25....ALK 0-1.6 Pink is so close its hard to tell exactly....NO2 .5...NO3 20....Ammonia .25....
When I do the water changes this is what I have done. Keep in  mind I know that there are probably better ways to do this but am still learning. So, first I used a tank vacuum and took out one gallon at a time. Then I put half a cup of instant ocean in a clean pitcher and added a gallon of distilled water to that. Stirred and stirred and stirred and then would add it slowly to the tank. Since I had done that I read that you should let is sit over night and use a power head to distribute the salt etc...
I want to know how to make ro/di water...
If the water I have it off should I still use it to clean the filters and stuff and Tania stated? I had been just rinsing with Tap water.
Does anyone recommend instant ocean as a good brand of salt or is there one that  is better liked?

I need to know what to do next NO2 and NO3 still look like that is a very high level. Is that correct?
So far today everyone seems fine.
Where can I get the super bac? Regular pet store?

[naturalbornrokstar]

Almost forgot you can watch the tank online

I also have two shrimp and two clowns hermits and snails

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/saltwater-fun

[Learner]

I always prep my water days in advance.
I have a heater and pump in a container, and add salt to the RO water so that when I change the water, there is minimal disruption.
When cleaning anything in the tank, I use the water I'm going to throw, as this has organisms etc.
Tap water has all sorts of additives such as chlorine and God knows what, so it won't be good for your tanks environment.
Hope this helps...

[Bergy]

you can make ro/di water with a ro/di filter... heheheheh

try looking on ebay or www.www.filtersdirect.com  they will match thier online/ebay prices.....

find something in the $120-150 range....  and get the pressurized storage tank...

Figure out how much water you are using now, and how much it cost... and then divide that into the cost of the ro/di filter and that will tell you how long it will be before you start saving money... usually it is about 8-12 months...

I would also suggest mounting the filter onto a small 'furniture' dolly... basically a piece of plywood with four wheels so you can wheel it in and out of a closet, and hook it up to your kitchent sink when you need it...

if you can mount it under your sink that ould be better so you dont have to keep moving it..



and yea, with all that you ahve done, your biological filter is all out of whack.. i would not have suggested buying livestock so quickly after replacing hte castle and adding rock...

and your aquarium vacuum isnt helping either... as you are sucking out the organisms that you need...

ALSO. and probably worse is that you rinse your pads and filters with tap water... you are killing whatever organisms that were on there and they have to start all over ..

I would do what everyone has suggested so far inthat you should use water from your tank to rinse/swish the filter pads in...

as all you want to do is remove some of the larger chunks/particulate matter and leave the biological organisms behind


if youwant to use the vacuum to remove water, without removing the sand, then fine... that is normal 'syphoning'

[Just_Greg]

another consideration might be that the LR you added to your tank i UNCURED, and if this is the case, is no doubt adding to your DOC's, resulting in elevated NH3.

i've actually cycled tanx by going out and picking the smelliest LR i could find.  you can also use your nose to determine the degree of cure of LR.  if it outright smells bad, it's raw, if it smells musty, it's partially cured, if it smells like the ocean, it's cured.

normally, a well balanced tank will simply suck up most "reasonable" amounts of DOC's, such as from adding a piece of semi-cured LR, but your maintenance is basically stripping your tank of its biofiltration, which amounts to you needing to re-cycle the tank every time you clean out the filter.  this is one of the reasons most of us use lots of LR...unless you kill off the LR, your biofiltration remains constant.

don't worry...we'll getcha on the right path to fishdom...

HTH

[naturalbornrokstar]

Lost another clownfish. What a waste I'm really disgusted. Going to get a bottle of super bac but I'm nowhere near anywhere I can get that tonite.
What else do I need to do please step by step.
Also I askd the guy at aqautic treasures if adding the rock and animals was safe. I'm quite pissed off right now after reading that you guys didn't think it was a good idea. I'm wandering if he really knows what he's talking about or just trying to get a sale.