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[Bergy]

oh, i totally agree...  the word career seemed to have a defferent meaning...  now iot is just a job...

no one except city or state workers and some 'union' workers ever work at the same place forever....

no more ';gold watches' for retirement...

i blame greed for this.... Bosses and 'share holders' only look at numbers...  and when they dont look at people, then it dont make sense to pay someone and year after year give an 'automatic' raise for 30 years...  Because you can get a younger less experienced worker for less, (going 'pay rate' vs one based on loyalty)

And employees are also responsible, as they tend to not remember 'loyalty' .. they tend to want and expect raises every single year, (and not jsut cost of living)...  With no regards to how the business is doing.  Seems a bit 'un-loyal' when you think that you performed better then ever, but maybe the business didnt and want/expect that performance raise...

Ultimately it comes down to betting paid /compensated the average going rate/wage... and although bosses totally understand this, most employees dont, and they end up going someplace else, and maybe end up working at a place that just loss somebody and is in a little bit of a bind, and willing to pay a 'skosh' more then the going rate, out of desperation...

they then tend to have an expectation that since they are paying a bit more they should get a bit more, and this starts the relationship off on a bad foot and most new jobs end up not working or not working for long... which puts more people on the job market...

and per this logic, it is no surprise to see the economy go down...at an ever increasing rate..  (cost of product goes up, and , more people not being able to afford that product)

And then the other issue, and no, i wont go on much longer... is UNIONS... ARRRRRGGHGHHHHHH

yes, they were needed, andyes they are still needed in some small sections/categorys  but ultimately, unions by definition is a company, and like all companys, they need to look at a bottom line and they need to turn a profit, (and keep the managers employed)


so, human nature and greed specifically is a problem that needs to be held in check... and since we cant count on self control and 'common sense' it will come down to govt control, and ultimately 'socialism', (just managed better, HOPEFULLY)



and yes, i kn ow historicxally socialism is a bad word, but hell, if folks think thiis helath care reform is anything less then socialist health care is fooling themselves


ok, im done, and yes, i know you all hate long diatribes.,...

sorry

[Just_Greg]

Bill,

i'm in total agreement.

unfortunately, the only way to get a decent bump in salary is to move every 3 years or so.  most companies don't even give you "cost of living", so if you stay at a place, you end up with a raise of 1%-3%...MAYBE 4% a year.

i've never played that game, as i tend to stay at companies a long time (14 years, 13 years and counting).  i only stayed at L-3 for 8 mos because the work was just BORING.  in fact, most CE's nowadays have never even gotten their hands on the parts they specify...they're paper pushers.

there has been some concern in many companies about the amount of "grey hair" in the ranks, but guess what?  all the younger peeps have no experience with what makes the parts tick, or how they're made.  many companies are LOOKING for peeps, but there aren't that many who fit the job, so they require a lot of mentoring, and most places don't have the inclination to train them.  everyone is looking for "drop-in" personnel.  it's pretty bad when you ask an interviewee with a MSEE how a transistor works and they can't tell you...

[Bergy]

one of my first 'jobs' was for a company that i worked for for 12 years, only to be screwed over by a 'new guy' and his buddies...


The owners and bosses i spent a decade working with an dknowing and establishing myself was for nothing...

i had to start all over and like you my next job was a mistake, and then a few other jobs were mistakes too... im not sure how those companies ever will survive or make money, but, it seems like you said, three years is about the max time for turn over